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Anne McMillan's avatar

These old women, now, were seated at the table as they were seated as teenagers then, they were decades weathered, their sons and daughters and lovers left behind in the dust, and they leaned in, raised their glasses to toast a robust, ageless thing, their friendship.

Nina Schuyler's avatar

Beautiful! I love how the "now" is punched up. It rises like a mountain, like a loud cry. Soon, its partner comes along, "then." And time is irrelevant here. The polysyndeton, the overuse of conjunctions, makes each of the elements distinct: "their sons and daughters and lovers." I love the colloquial, "left behind in the dust," which captures their youth. A nice build to the final word, "friendship."

Ani B's avatar

I want to be seated at their table.

Lori Thatcher's avatar

Such a sweetness to the opening image. A happy sentence in contrast to the example. It made me smile.

Diane Putney's avatar

This sentence so skillfully narrates the gift of life long friendships after "decades weathered...", the vicissitudes of these friendships, surviving creepy boyfriends and eating disorders as college roommates, toxic family members, kid's achievements, dissolution of marriages. Great job, Anne

Sarah Byrd Thompson's avatar

So insightful, and so very true! Love it, Anne.

Mark Olmsted's avatar

The inclusion of "sons and daughters" is a little chilling, as I know of no mothers who want to "leave them behind in the dust," however I take it to mean that when they are gathered around a table, all memories and obligation to others are put aside and temporarily forgotten.

Rosalind's avatar

what a great sentence Anne, despite their age friendship is what lasts, yes!

Norm Danzig's avatar

Long friendships of people who raise their glasses to each other for the uninterrupted attachment. Lovely.

Nin's avatar

Such a stunning response to the lesson. It's like a second lesson for me. :)

Rosalind's avatar

The dogs, today, were barking just as they always did back then, they were impatient and intent on getting through the gate firm in their belief that untold excitement lay beyond the limited confines of their imagination.

Nina Schuyler's avatar

I love the concise "back then," which points to a past and a possible whole story behind the one that is unfolding now. Nice balance with "impatient and intent," and I love the image of something beyond the "limited confines of their imagination." The wild frontier!

Rosalind's avatar

Thank you Nina!

Mark Olmsted's avatar

Interesting question. Can dogs imagine anything outside of what they have already experienced? I think not, and yet that is enough to excite them feverishly.

Rosalind's avatar

not sure but I do know my dog always wants to see what's the other side of a door

Mark Olmsted's avatar

I once heard described the intense urge to go out as primarily the urge to check one’s “pee-mail.” We can easily forget that they are constantly getting information through their noses that we cannot perceive. Who knows if what they “imagine” beyond the gate are simply messages they are getting from all of those smells?

Rosalind's avatar

Yes! Their noses are extraordinary and passing dogs always leave a calling card!!!

Ani B's avatar

and rightly so

Rosalind's avatar

Thanks Ani!

Diane Putney's avatar

This sentence is so precious, capturing that canine quality of unbridled excitement and joy from routinized actions, like "getting through the gate"

Rosalind's avatar

Thanks Diane!

Norm Danzig's avatar

Impatient dogs wanting out and enjoy their freedom.

Rosalind's avatar

absolutely Norm!

Anna Chapman's avatar

Most of us, now, without even thinking, turn a polished metal faucet to get water, back then my father lowered two pails into the river water to haul it up the bank to the kitchen and then pour it into a large clean oil drum from whose rim hung a shiny dipper by the crook of its handle.

Jennifer Lauck's avatar

That shiny dipper, the crook of its handle. An entire world, the work of it in those two images and buckets. 🐦‍⬛

Anna Chapman's avatar

Thank you, Jennifer!

Anne McMillan's avatar

How times change. Love the details of the father, the oil drum, the shiny dipper. Well done!

Anna Chapman's avatar

Thank you, Anne1

Nina Schuyler's avatar

The stacked adjectives "polished metal" faucet slow me down to really see it, which is perfect because they counter "without even thinking," and the sentence makes us think. Then even more so with the comparison to the two pails dipped in the river water and the "shiny dipper by the crook of its handle." The hyper detailing changes are seeing and our thinking.

Anna Chapman's avatar

Thank you, Nina!

Lori Thatcher's avatar

Her marriage, now, was shifting as mine had then, weathering and crumbling with a kind of urgency, her fingers slipping and clinging to whatever fragile grip remained.

Nina Schuyler's avatar

So good! Marriage is personified, and it's "weathering and crumbling" (balance), and with the diction, "kind of urgency," you inject tension. More energy comes into the sentence with the adjectives "slipping and clinging," (echoing "weathering and crumbling), as well as the music of the --ing words. I like the plosives with "grip remained."

Diane Putney's avatar

"weathering", "crumbling", "urgency" "slipping" and "fragile grip". So powerful. You've done it again, Lori

Ani B's avatar

I especially like the word "urgency" with the drama it implies

Lori Thatcher's avatar

Thanks for that observation, Ani.

Lori Thatcher's avatar

Thank you, Diane.

Mark Olmsted's avatar

The repetition of the 4 "ing" words create movement and a sense of slippage - I can easily imagine her holding on to a rope (her marriage) for dear life and realizing she simply won't be able to hang on.

Lori Thatcher's avatar

Thanks Mark. I kind of pictured a steep rocky slope or cliff but the image of a rope seems appropriate.

Sarah Byrd Thompson's avatar

Yes, Lori, your sensory imagery is as tragic and breathtaking as the situation. (I know from experience!)

Lori Thatcher's avatar

Thanks Sarah. (sad situation, I'm sure) I don't know from my own experience, but that's the wonder of writing.

Sarah Byrd Thompson's avatar

Well, you killed it! (And I’m glad you’ve never felt that way!) ♥️

Nin's avatar

Wow, wow... I feel each inch of this.

Lori Thatcher's avatar

Thanks so much, Nin.

Anne McMillan's avatar

So poignant. A comparison of two marriages and the shifts: weathering, crumbling, slipping, clinging. Well done, Lori.

Jennifer Lauck's avatar

" . . . as mine had then, weathering and crumbling with a kind of urgency..." -> This, hit hard and true. Well done. 🐦‍⬛

Diane Putney's avatar

For unmarried child-free nurses presently employed, as in decades past, is the unspoken expectation that they forfeit their holiday plans, working overtime to accommodate colleagues with children where the value of one’s personal time is still measured in units of progeny.

Nina Schuyler's avatar

So good! The "as in decades past" does two things--it creates a mid-branching sentence, generating more tension as it delays the verb, and it suggests that this situation has gone on a long time. This is so well compressed: "the value of one's personal time is still measured in units of progeny." The diction conveys an educated speaker with insights and opinions.

Lori Thatcher's avatar

It's such a formal, seemingly factual, statement and yet it carries an undercurrent of depression at nothing having changed with this unfair expectation. Nicely done.

Diane Putney's avatar

Thank you Lori. The depressing factor is that it is other women who control and perpetuate this dynamic

Lori Thatcher's avatar

That is depressing.

Diane Putney's avatar

In a word, yes— disappointing at best, depressing, demoralizing at worst

Konrad Nau's avatar

Great sentence with insightful “ units of progeny” whose currency was cashed every holiday at every medical setting I ever worked in.

Diane Putney's avatar

Thank you Konrad, for your comments. Indeed, the only aspect that has changed through the decades is that management no longer brazenly announces that having already automatically scheduled the employees with kids off on all the holidays, they subsequently invite the “rest” of the crew to put in their requests for time off, as a “courtesy”.

Sarah Byrd Thompson's avatar

I wandered a bit (unintentionally) from our brief, and found this:

Her room, now unoccupied, morphs daily back into the version of itself from before, the windows uncovered again and her old lady lace curtains relegated with everything except a prized watercolor to a corner of the attic.

Nina Schuyler's avatar

I love the transformation and the rejection of time as separate compartments. The comma-isolated "now unoccupied" makes those two words stand out. That's the present. But the room also carries the past, and the details that follow convey what it used to be like. The image of the "windows uncovered again" suggests a sense of more sight, more openness, or allowing things in. The only thing that remains in both times is the "prized watercolor." And now I want to see that watercolor!

Sarah Byrd Thompson's avatar

Thank you, Nina!

Anne McMillan's avatar

Very nice, Sarah. There’s a presence in that room, and I can feel it. Tangible objects, something to hold on to, like the watercolor.

Sarah Byrd Thompson's avatar

Thank you, Anne. I'm glad that came through for you, and I appreciate your saying so!

Mark Olmsted's avatar

Her judgements, these days, were updated perhaps, but behind them was the same inner conviction that her opinions contained essential information and without them we would be lost lambs in a storm.

Nina Schuyler's avatar

So good! There is an above and below in this sentence: the above is her updated judgments, and the below is the "same inner conviction..." The narrator can hear the rumbling underneath. I love the metaphor of "lost lambs in a storm," which turns the collective "we" into a helpless group she must guide and save.

Anne McMillan's avatar

A very astute narrator, revealing what seems to be quite a formidable woman. I like the word ‘updated’ judgements, and the insight on ‘lost lambs’ which might be what she thinks to herself about these poor souls. Nicely done.

Norm Danzig's avatar

I like the relationship between her judgements and the possibilities of getting it wrong as lost lambs.

Lori Thatcher's avatar

Mark, I enjoyed the image this sentence brought to me of a person who can maintain her feeling of superiority of opinion all while changing those opinions. (And so much better said than this comment). Well done.

Mark Olmsted's avatar

Actually, I thought your interpretation was closest to what I had intended. Over the years, she has eliminated the overtly politically incorrect from her opinions, but still imposes them on those about her with the rock-ribbed belief it’s for their own good.

I actually thought of Ethel Kennedy as she was portrayed in “Carolyn and John: A Love Story”. A matriarch with an unwavering attitude of complete self-assurance, and a bit of domestic dictator. (Of course, I took it with a grain of salt because…Ryan Murphy, but as a fictionalized character, she works well.)

Diane Putney's avatar

Perfect sentence describing the person’s struggle to balance her opining with the recognition that attitudes, once regarded as controversial, have fundamentally changed, though if people would just give her a moment to spell out her intransigent beliefs, the world as we know it, would be a better place.

Mark Olmsted's avatar

It’s interesting to see varying interpretations in these reactions. For what I intended was a woman who makes a no-nonsense assessment of changing attitudes, and updates her opinion to filter out those that used to be non-controversial, but now would very much are. But these strategically cosmetic alterations allow her to keep imposing her will over her progeny — I was thinking of a wealthy matriarch who can back up her dictatorial impulses with the power of her purse. But as I conceived of her, she doesn’t struggle at all. It is her certainty that intimidates them. No one ever wins an argument with Nana.

Diane Putney's avatar

It is so very intriguing how individuals interpret the same words, written or stated, as well as gestures. I interpreted the sentence exactly how you just described, and perhaps did not articulate it as well as I could have. Perhaps the word, "once" in my reply"once considered controversial" was gratuitous and implied something else.

Mark Olmsted's avatar

What I disagreed with was the notion that this woman was "struggling" in any way. And her old "bad" attitudes were once uncontroversial, and had grown controversial, which is why has learned to update them. She is not intransigent in her beliefs, but she is certain that her opinions, whatever they end up being, should take precedence over everyone else's. And they do give her more than a moment, as she is very intimidating and always has been. Like I said, a matriarch who wields a matriarch's power, but smart enough to change with the times so that she can't be dismissed.

Nin's avatar

Her emptiness, still, overflowed as her cravings had overflowed then, she had bested the battle of wills but soon every sediment of sand and silt in the dams of her riverbed had loosened, let go.

Nina Schuyler's avatar

I love the antithesis between "emptiness" and "overflowed." Such a nice balance that makes both vivid and powerful. The vagueness invites many interpretations. You've provided the "source" of the metaphor, "her riverbed," and we are left to imagine what the " target " is, or what the riverbed refers to. The last two words are powerful, "let go."

Nin's avatar

Thank you, Nina. I'm wondering if I should use more concrete language next time.

Nina Schuyler's avatar

For me, you've captured the privacy of the mind first--this is how your character is thinking about it. The next sentence could invite more concreteness, which would allow the reader into the psyche. It's almost as if the situation defies language at first so it stays abstract.

Nin's avatar

Very helpful. Thank you!

Lori Thatcher's avatar

Emptiness that overflows is so interesting, almost like a black hole obscuring the surroundings.

Nin's avatar

Thank you, Lori! I like your black hole thought.

Jennifer Lauck's avatar

Beautiful imagery. "Loosened, let go" lands like an exhale at the end. The riverbed earns it. 🐦‍⬛

Nin's avatar

Thank you so much, Jennifer. ❤️

Anne McMillan's avatar

Love the riverbed imagery and the last part, ‘loosened, let go.’

Nin's avatar

Thank you, Anne!

Sarah Byrd Thompson's avatar

Ooooh, I felt like this last week, and couldn't put it into words, Nin. Left me breathless!

Nin's avatar

Thank you so much, Sarah ❤️ I wasn't sure I articulated the feeling well enough. It's comforting to know you felt it.

Ani B's avatar

This cat, now, was chewing a rat as I had once chewed my T-bone steak in my T-bone steak days, he was angling and gnawing the carcass with an instinctual urge and was oblivious to my disgust that he, this cat, and I share the same house, the same bed.

Nina Schuyler's avatar

So great! The precision of the cat is chewing is wonderful, as is the similarity to the way the narrator chewed her T-bone steak in her "T-bone steak days." So funny! Nice balance with "angling and gnawing," and the ring of the --ing words. The full bestial aspect of the cat and the narrator are on display! By using anaphora, the repetition of "same house, the same bed," I can feel the heightened emotion of disgust.

Ani B's avatar

It was truly disgusting. I could hardly sleep that night.

Norm Danzig's avatar

The rat becomes her memory of t bones and the realization of sharing the same house.

Ani B's avatar

Yes! I hadn't thought of it that way. When chewing on the t-bone, I was thinking oh how delicious, more salt, etc. But the reality is I had an instinctual urge to consume an animal.

Lori Thatcher's avatar

Such great images! Yes, yuck but that you can compare it so viscerally. And the addition of same house - same bed. So well done.

Anne McMillan's avatar

Eww!! This is grossly good! Using the T-bone steak comparison is pretty funny, but I can see it all. Well done!

Nin's avatar

So funny and so good!

Rosalind's avatar

that made me laugh!

Nina Schuyler's avatar

I laughed too!

J. M. Mikkalsson's avatar

The leader of the group of grade school boys, whom I chanced upon, was slinging insults at another boy until I stepped in and then when he turned on me I suspected he had picked up his vocabulary at home.

Nina Schuyler's avatar

The clause, "whom I chanced upon," not only creates suspense by delaying the verb "was slinging" (slinging is a great word!), but it does so much work in this sentence. The narrator enters the world without knowing what she will encounter, and this is where she finds herself. There is immense poise, too, because the narrator, when she becomes the subject of attack, reflects rather than counterattacks.

J. M. Mikkalsson's avatar

Thank you. I appreciate all that you see in it.

Diane Putney's avatar

The perils of home schooling. Im curious as to what extent, if any, the recognition of the possible etiology of the leader’s remarks caused the narrator to modify their intervention in the matter.

J. M. Mikkalsson's avatar

home schooling of the wrong kind, perhaps at the dinner table. There was only so much I could say in the sentence but the way he was hurling insults at a kid who didn't fit into their group was the reason she stepped into stop them. actually from there on, she sees him as a charismatic and intelligent boy if his talents were guided so as to use them for the common good.

Diane Putney's avatar

It was clear from your sentence what you had meant by the reference to dinner table conversation at home. You are quite skillful with words. In an overstatement of the obvious, vitriol and verbal abuse is a variant of many toxic family systems and becomes so normalized that the kids reflexively engage in it when they are triggered. It takes time to “deprogram” them.

J. M. Mikkalsson's avatar

He's only an imaginary boy but all your comments are helpful. Last night I considered turning the confrontation into a flash fiction. Not sure quite how yet.

Nina Schuyler's avatar

Yes! I encourage you to turn it into a flash. There is grace in that she doesn't attack back but finds understanding.

J. M. Mikkalsson's avatar

I could have said he was slinging insults at a boy unwelcome in their crowd. I also see the boy being picked on trying to get around the hostile group on his way home, but they won't let him pass.

Nina Schuyler's avatar

I think "unwelcome" is implied.

Konrad Nau's avatar

The Granadans, now, fueled by promises of religious tolerance by Ferdinand and Isabella, then faced a history of Catholic intolerance and rumors of the Inquisition as execution pyres for heretics were stoked in Seville.

Nina Schuyler's avatar

So good! There is so much movement and change in this sentence from a promise of "religious tolerance" to execution pyres for heretics. As I've read these versions of the sentence, the "now" pops out — the "now" in this sentence holds so much hope and promise, only to be crushed. An emotional rollercoaster!

Konrad Nau's avatar

Thank you, Nina. These sentences require so much thought on how to fit elements of my story scene into their structure. I’m learning as much about expressing the emotional thread of my story as I am of the elements of English sentence structure.

Jennifer Lauck's avatar

You are on it like a Jane Austin bonnet!! 🐦‍⬛

Elaine Pigeon's avatar

Back then, we always dreamt in color, just like Saturday night movies were always in technicolor, yet our TVs were always B&W, prepping us for what was to come.

Meredith Jo's avatar

Those times, now, were proof, and as sure as we were unaware of them then, they were full of change, as noticeable change takes mounds upon mounds of incremental creative strokes.

Nina Schuyler's avatar

You accomplish so much in this one sentence! With the vision of now, looking back, the narrator can see "they were full of change." The repetition of "change" amplifies it and suggests that the changes were profound. The repetition of "mounds upon mounds" mirrors the sentence's content. It isn't one blast from which change comes, but the "incremental creative strokes."

Norm Danzig's avatar

Ben’s relationship with Amy had started, in that horny way, amidst the excitement and adventure at the start of the union election, without planning anything further but then contemplating moving in together especially after they went to see a large two bedroom that might appear to be the next logical step, but that brought up what about telling people and what about their folks and what about Frankie and Mac and what about and what about?

Nina Schuyler's avatar

This sentence does such a good job of contextualizing Ben's relationship with Amy, which is mingled with the start of the union election. "But" shifts the sentence from no planning to planning and then unfurls a long list of questions. I love the end, "and what about and what about?" which conveys a sense of endless questions.

Jennifer Lauck's avatar

Beautiful teaching, Nina: Baldwin saturates this clause with plosives—harsher sounds—using “b, d, t, c, p” in the words “bumped, abruptly, against, actual possibilities”—fitting sounds given the sentence’s content with the sense of growth and harsh constraints. 🐦‍⬛

Nina Schuyler's avatar

thank you!

Diane Putney's avatar

Thank you Nina